The Insider Podcast – Episode 1: Louise Lisztman

So, Louise Lisztman, welcome to The Insider Podcast.

Thank you for having me. It’s really a pleasure to be here with you today.

Now, I first spoke to you in 2022 when you were just about to launch this amazing business. But for those who have not read that original article in The Insider and it may not be familiar with you, perhaps you can just give us an introduction to Dead Sea Dream and tell us a little bit about where the idea came from.

Yes, of course. So I launched Dead Sea Dream a bit over two years ago. So basically for sensitive skin Dead Sea Dream offers natural skincare products formulated with healing Dead Sea minerals to clear your skin, boost your confidence and improve your wellbeing. So the idea came from my personal journey struggling with acne and eczema since a very young age. Actually since my teens. I tried literally every product out there. Nothing was working, or if it was working, it was only a short term fix. And then it was upsetting my skin even more. So, my parents took me on a trip to the Dead Sea when I was around 19 years old, I was in Glion during that time, and this was really transformative. So after bathing in the Dead Sea water, I saw directly an improvement on my eczema I started using Dead Sea mud to help clear my acne. And from then I took a more simplistic approach to skincare that really helped my skin. So that’s where the whole idea for the brand came from.

And why the Dead Sea particularly? What is it about that amazing body of water that has these powers?

So much! So I did so much research. I’m passionate about the Dead Sea. So first of all, it’s the oldest spa in the world, dating back from Cleopatra. It is the saltiest body of water in the world. It’s approximately ten times saltier than any other ocean or sea in the world, and it is also the lowest place on Earth. It’s minus 430m below sea level. So what makes the Dead Sea so special? Obviously, so the salt concentration makes you float when you bathe there. But with this salt concentration comes a very high concentration of essential minerals like magnesium, bromide, calcium, potassium that your body needs but cannot produce on its own. So bringing this to your skin cells – as your skin is your biggest organ – is really benefiting. So it helps to detoxify the skin. Clear inflammation, calm, nourish and also strengthen the skin barrier so you’re less likely to get bacterial infections, rashes, inflammation. And so yeah a myriad of benefits.

It’s clearly an amazing environment. I’ve never had the privilege of going, but I understand, I can see it’s an incredible place, but it’s also unfortunately an environment that I understand is under some threat. Now, I know we could record an entire podcast about the Dead Sea threats to the environment there. But I mean, maybe you could just give us a flavor of the threats to this incredible place.

So I mean, the levels are going down, that’s for sure. So there has always been a natural evaporation process over the Dead Sea because of where it is in the world. It’s between Jordan and Israel in the middle of the desert, which is a very hot, it gets over 45 degrees in summer, very hot area. So actually the salt concentration results from the natural evaporation process of the water over the Dead Sea. But obviously global warming hasn’t been helping because there is less rains like in lots of regions in the world that are more and more arid. So yeah. So this kind of results in the lower levels. There is also most of the extractions basically of the Dead Sea minerals. And Dead Sea salts are for something that is called potash. It’s a fertilizer ingredient. So 95% of the extraction is for this. So we work with an NGO called the Dead Sea Revival Project. I met personally with the founder of this NGO many times. He’s also so passionate about preserving the Dead Sea and we do a lot with them. So we did some beach cleaning. We also donate a percentage of our revenue, and we really try to bring awareness, because a lot of people don’t know the difference between the Dead Sea, the Red Sea, the Black Sea, they don’t really know where it is, you know, the impact. And yeah, so by bringing awareness, by getting people to go there or experience the products, we want to bring awareness to the conservation, obviously.

So we’ll come back to this amazing body of water, the Dead Sea. And obviously to your business shortly. But in terms of your personal journey, there’s also was there was a phase working in hospitality after you graduated from Glion. Just tell me a little bit about that experience and whether you were still, even then founding these ideas for an entrepreneurial life.

Yeah, totally. So when I was in Glion I specialized in finance, and I started working in London after graduating for the Mandarin Oriental in Knightsbridge in the finance department. So finance was always a subject that I loved, and I also find it to be the backbone of any business. You can’t make a business viable, or sustainable if you don’t understand the numbers. So yeah, so that was an amazing experience. I then went on to open the latest Four Seasons property in London, which is the Four Seasons at Ten Trinity Square, also in the finance department. This was so forming, I mean, as most of my teachers in Glion always told me, you need to do an opening. If you can do an opening, do an opening. I did an opening. I barely slept for a year!

But it was honestly an amazing experience. And actually a lot of the things I learned really related to building my own business, starting from scratch. So yeah. And then I went to work in revenue management for the biggest hotel wholesaler in the world. It’s called Hotel Beds. So this was totally different, but also really interesting, analyzing trends, seasonality impacts, doing the dynamic pricing. But after two years of working there, I didn’t really feel like I had any growth opportunities. So and then Covid came in. So I felt like it was a good time to start working on Dead Sea Dream.

And then when I spoke to you before, you mentioned that there is entrepreneurship in the Lisztman family through your parents. So it was probably always something that was in your mind. But what was the reaction from your family but also your friends when you said, right, I’m going to go it alone. I’m going to set up a skincare brand from scratch.

Yeah. So I mean, from my family, I got a lot of support because they always saw that in Glion I was always very hard working, got really good grades. I never spent a day after Glion without a job, thanks to Glion, obviously. And I believe that if you do Glion and you want to work, you can find a job anywhere in the world and never be jobless. So this is truly a blessing. So they recognize that like how hardworking, ambitious I was, so they really supported me. My most of my friends as well really supported me. I’m sure that some of them were like, she’s totally crazy.

Or maybe, you know, some people always think like, yeah, she’s saying this now, but it’s like she’s never going to see it through. Well, I did, so yeah. So now I’m sure they all support me.

But it’s important to remember what you said at the outset that this is a kind of product area that, you know, skincare is a product you had a personal need for and affinity with. So this wasn’t something that you dreamed out of thin air basically?

Exactly. Yeah. I felt like there was a need for it. But it’s also I mean, it’s a very crowded industry. And my experience was in hospitality, not in skin care or cosmetics. So yeah, I had to learn everything from scratch. But yeah, it was fascinating.

It’s a very competitive business. It is also a business where the product is everything. The quality the product is everything. And I remember you telling me a little bit about this, but it’s worth sharing with our audience a bit. A little bit about how you went about getting that product together, finding a local, authentic formulator. So tell us a bit about that journey. I know it was not without its pitfalls.

No it wasn’t, especially during Covid times. It didn’t make it really easy to travel and to meet with people, but I started by really sitting down doing loads of research about the industry, how it works, how do you bring a product to market? What are the regulatory compliance? And then, so I knew that my products needed to have Dead Sea salt water and mud in their formula. So it was really important for me to find a local formulator, manufacturer around the Dead Sea region to formulate and produce.

So I met with literally every single lab in the region. I asked a lot of questions. I’m sure at the beginning, like it was a lot of stupid questions. You know, that were obvious for the people I was meeting with, but absolutely not obvious for me. I then like, sat down, compared notes and established a plan of action of how I wanted to do things. So we ended up working with a formulator that has over 20 years of experience formulating cosmetic products with Dead Sea minerals, and I also chose a manufacturing facility close to the Dead Sea region that is used to working with this type of raw materials, but also used to international clients and shipping products all over the world. So dealing with regulations that could help me on that side. So it took us almost three years to develop six products. It was really important for me to start with a range of skin care, body care, hair care. Also to test the market, what they were more into or not. And yeah. So you come across as a brand more serious when you’re already launched with a range of six products than with one product. And the research and development can be so long and tedious that, yeah, you don’t want to launch one product and then one year after launch another and, you know, like your growth is just, like so slow. So yeah.

And I guess also on the authenticity angle here, I mean, you can say on your products, you can say in your marketing, yeah, these, these products are formulated in the Dead Sea region, you know, we’re called this for a reason. Being able to have that authenticity was obviously quite important?

And also to bring out an awareness on the region, help the people there get, you know like work there. I feel like it’s so easy for Europeans or I mean the ‘occidents’, you know, to take anything, bring it home and produce it. But yeah, it was really important for me to keep all the processes there. Even though we’re a UK brand and after we stock everything in the UK. But yeah, it was important for me to give back to the region basically.

I think it’s also probably important to mention, because we spoke about the threats to the Dead Sea, that the quantity of minerals that you’re taking for these products is obviously a minuscule portion of what’s available in the Dead Sea.

Yeah. Especially at the scale of our brand right now.

And the packaging, I remember you telling me that, you know, you were also very committed to the packaging and making sure that was right as well. So tell us a bit about that side. The other side of manufacturing.

So I discovered a very interesting problem in the cosmetics industry when it comes to packaging. So you see most of the packaging is produced in China, not only for cost reasons, but also because they have the manufacturing facilities to supply the world. But the problem with that is that the machines are used for packaging usually run on very high minimum order quantities. So for a specific packaging, you have to order like 5,000 units, 10,000 units. And what was recommended to me by some manufacturers was like, well, it’s okay. For instance, we can only fill 3,000 and you throw away the rest of the packaging or you keep it for next time. So I knew that as a young brand, I was going to for sure change my packaging. I mean, when I’m going to reproduce, I’m going to update the packaging, upgrade it, make it better. So I wasn’t I wasn’t counting on storing the packaging in like some random warehouse in the Middle East for three years, you know. And I didn’t want to throw it. Neither. I mean, it’s crazy when you think about it. And so there is there is a big waste issue when it comes to packaging in the cosmetics industry because, yeah, it is cheaper to actually produce more, fill less and throw away, your unit cost is lower.

Which is really going to hurt a relatively low volume… if you’ll excuse the word, niche brand?

For sure, yeah. So it was really hard for me to find this right balance because I need to have costs that I can work with, you know, like healthy margins. But at the same time, I don’t have the economies of scale of the big players. And I also want to be respectful to the environment. So yeah, so we ended up sourcing the packaging from a local manufacturer actually, which is less than 50km away from our product manufacturer; because otherwise there is with packaging, there is a big problem of logistics. So it’s produced in China. It’s maybe filled in the States or in Europe, and then it travels back around the world to be distributed. So I wanted to really monitor and reduce our impact on the environment as much as possible. I mean, if it’s not my generation that changes things, who’s going to do it?

And in terms of those relationships, you’ve talked about the formulator, the manufacturer, you know, these are all established businesses. Now you’ve gone to those established businesses as a young woman new to the skincare business, new to entrepreneurship. Did you find – not necessarily with the ones you’ve chosen – but did you find some resistance, that you had to prove any sort of credibility before forging those relationships? I’m just trying to explore the mind of the entrepreneur, because those are pretty big steps to take. I mean, and you’re dealing with very seasoned practitioners. How did you how did you feel going into those lion’s dens?

Not really well, honestly. Like so many people tried to take me for a ride, that’s for sure. They really took advantage of the fact that I’m young, I’m a woman. It’s also like it was mostly a men’s world, believe it or not. Like when it comes to packaging and manufacturing side of things. Of course when it’s marketing, you only see women. So, being young, being a woman, having limited experience in the industry. So people definitely tried to take me for a ride; and hence this packaging issue, basically, because my manufacturer was trying to push me to source packaging from China, which has really high minimum order quantities. So then I’d be like, okay, I don’t want to throw it away. So fill everything and make the bulk order much bigger. But it’s also like then the products have a certain shelf life, so I need to be also mindful of that and to make sure that I don’t have products that are expired. Thousands of products that are expired that I have to throw away because this is even worse. I’m not only throwing away packaging, I’m throwing away the bulk, like the creams, the product.

Now you got those deals done. And when we got towards the end of 2022, you launched Dead Sea Dream and its original six product range. Thinking back, you know, two or so years to that process, what would you say are the biggest things you learned from going through that launch process?

Going through that launch process I learned that things really take time. So as I mentioned, there are so many parties involved. You have to formulator, the manufacturer who has to source all the raw materials, the packaging supplier, you have the regulatory body. So yeah, when it was the first time around making all those parts click together was really hard and tedious. So now we have started formulating new products and I’ve felt much more confident about the process.

Are you still quite hands on with that? Because I think you were very hands on with that originally. That’s still a big part of what you do?

Yeah, I really love it. And it’s so cool. Like this part is really exciting. Until it isn’t, as always! Until you come up with a problem. So you kind of, like, always have to think outside the box. Have really a mindset of problem solving all the time.

And you’re obviously, going into quite a crowded market as a new brand. What were some of the ideas you had around promotion? Because I know looking at your world since then, you know, you are incredibly energetic entrepreneur, an incredibly active entrepreneur, and an inspiration to all. And I would say to any listener that if you want to have some proper inspiration on LinkedIn, then look up Louise Lisztman and follow her or connect with her because you’ll definitely get a daily dose of inspiration. But having said that, I mean, tell us a little bit about how you managed to get your brand known and some of the little tricks and techniques that you used.

Yeah. Thank you so much for saying that! So I mean, there is no magic recipe. I think at the beginning when I launched the brand, we focused a lot on digital marketing, and if I had to go back in time, I wouldn’t invest that much money or time into it. But it was a very tricky period in the UK because we’re just coming out of Covid. So obviously during Covid, Digital marketing was everything and totally boomed. But by January 2023, in the UK, people wanted to go back in-store, have real retail experiences and yeah, and also as a skincare brand, I mean, you can have the biggest budget ever. Digital marketing is great, but people need to try the products to see whether they like it or not. So yeah, so this was definitely a hurdle. I also thought that, like, I maybe spent too much time trying to make things perfect. I don’t know, I mean, Glion is amazing at making you very detail orientated; but when you’re a startup and you need to push products out there, when you don’t have a lot of resources. I mean, nothing is going to be perfect the first time around. You know, you just need to like, push it out and you’ll improve it next time, you know, when you have time or more resources. So yeah.

That’s interesting. You know, I think there’s an old saying something like ‘perfection is the enemy of progress’ or whatever. So, you’d endorse that, basically?

Yeah. I mean, it’s hard for me personally because I’m very detail orientated and very perfectionist. I like things to be done well. I think my reputation is on the line. My brand reputation is on the line. I always want to show the best image possible, but sometimes it’s not realistic, you know? So you have to make compromise and live with that. And so yeah, so 2023 was a bit difficult, especially the first half, for us. But when I saw that the investment I put in digital marketing wasn’t really bringing the return I expected, I just pivoted basically and did much more pop ups. So we did some pop ups with John Lewis, actually more than some, really like 5 or 6, which were really successful. We also did some shopping fairs, and I started doing trade shows where I met with stockists, and this was really life changing for the brand. And yeah, and that’s what we continue to do in 2024.

It’s interesting that getting out in front of your audience was the transformative moment, basically?

Totally.

And what sort of reaction were you getting? I mean, as you mentioned, you had pop ups in store. Were they really fulfilling experiences, where people were loving the stuff and trying it all out? How did they go?

So I think honestly, seeing people loving the product and raving about it and how it helps them with their skin conditions is honestly the best part of this job. And it’s what we’re here for. So we’ve received so many amazing feedbacks of people loving the products. Raving about it. We’ve also secured over 20 stockists in the UK. I started going on live TV in September last year. So this was also very life changing for my business, obviously in terms of volumes of sales and people are loving the products as well. So it’s good where we won the multiple awards.

And those are quality awards. Those are those awards by peers basically?

Yes exactly, industry awards. So we have the Vegan Beauty Awards that we won, the Pure Gift Awards and the Platinum Magazine Awards, and we just applied to the Free From Skin Care Awards. With two products. So hopefully we’ll get some good feedback, I’m very confident.

Excellent, excellent. And you mentioned that the range is also developing from that original launch. Tell us a little bit about that.

So we have one new product that we’re going to launch in about three months’ time. It’s now ready to go into test. So basically in the cosmetics industry once you are done with a formula, you have an idea what packaging you’re going to put your product and you need to do three months of mandatory stability, compatibility tests. You need to register your products to the European portal, the UK portal, and you need to have a representative person that basically takes charge of the product information file and all of the regulatory compliance. So yeah, so now we’re at that stage with this product. It’s going to be… I don’t want to say too much. I want to build the excitement!

Absolutely fine.

It’s going to be skincare and, yeah, it’s going to be all natural, plastic free, fragrance free. So we’re really excited about that.

That’s amazing. And in terms of the top selling product, what’s your best seller?

So our two best sellers. So we have one, our Nourishing Hand and Foot Cream which people love. And you would be surprised how many people we met that experience eczema or psoriasis on their hands and how uncomfortable it is because you’re always using your hands, and also they don’t like showing hands with rashes or stuff like that. So this cream has been a lifesaver for so many of our customers. And our Purifying Mineral Mud Mask, which is fragrance free, made with natural Dead Sea mud and with iron and zinc to clear acne blemishes. Strengthen the skin barrier. So yeah, these are two bestsellers, but we received amazing feedback from other products.

Excellent, excellent. Obviously, we mentioned that you had a background in hospitality, and that you studied at a hospitality school. And I know when we first spoke a couple of years ago and you had ambitions to maybe try and strike some hotel partnerships to actually get your products in hotels. Is that still an ambition of yours?

Yeah, it is still in the back of my mind, to do an amenities range. But the problem with amenities is that they’re not really sustainable. They’re really cute, you know, with their… So I’m trying to. And also like first of all at the moment, so we have a body cream that could be able to go into the amenities. And a conditioner, a hair mask conditioner. So it’s in the plans to develop a shampoo and body wash and yeah, products that will be fit for amenities. And once we develop those products for our customers and they’ve been tested and loved, I will look into how to adapt these products for the hotel industry. So either in refills, because now this is more and more widespread, or small amenities, the classic ones, but maybe with more eco-friendly packaging.

But obviously with the hotel trade moving towards greater sustainability, the wellness offer, you know, all natural ingredients, all natural products. The rise of vegetarianism, veganism, I mean it could well be a fertile market, I guess? You know, if you’re a hotelier listening to this, come and talk to Louise because she’s got the products that could support your brand basically if you’re in those areas!

Yes, I would love it if you can place an order before I go into production. That’s really great.

So the life of an entrepreneur, especially a young entrepreneur. I mean, you’ve talked a little bit about the challenges already, but, you know, having never really been in business myself, I can’t imagine what it must be like. So tell me a little bit about those challenges, those tough moments, and also maybe how you made yourself get through them.

Yeah. So I think since launching my brand, one of the toughest moments was… so I lost my dad a few months before the launch in 2022. So it’s really hard for me not having him here, because he was always my role model and for him not to see what I’ve accomplished. I also feel sometimes that I’ve lost my guide, if that makes sense?

Because he was an entrepreneur in his own right, wasn’t he?

Exactly, yeah. So I would have loved to have him around to help me with the business. Among other things obviously.

So that was a really tough point for me. Yeah, 2023 as well, when I realized that I invested a lot of money, because basically before the launch, we did a ‘friends and family’ round where I raised about 300,000 pounds. And I saw in 2023 that this money was going away fast and I wasn’t getting the return that I wanted from digital marketing. So I started really freaking out. I was like, oh my God, how am I going to pay my employees? How am I going to pay my suppliers, my storage, everything? How am I gonna live?

So yeah, this was very stressful. But I guess, when you’re an entrepreneur, you have to have this mindset of being a risk taker, being able to pivot quickly, to adapt quickly, to find solutions to problems. And actually, when you’re going through hard times… how to say it in a nice way, it’s like beneficial for your business in a way, because when you’re put into starvation mode, you’re really going into survival mode, if that makes sense? And so at the end of the day it was a very stressful period. Like I’d say like mid-2023 for me. But it really turned my business around. And now I feel confident about the direction the business is going.

And was it easy to keep the energy levels up? I mean I’ve seen you in action. You’re an incredibly energetic person. Was it easy to kind of maintain that energy and enthusiasm? And were there ways that, you know, you kind of tricked yourself into doing it?

I never asked myself if it was easy. You just have to do it. So you have to find the resilience within you to not give up and pursue and make it succeed at all costs. So yeah.

And what about support networks? Is there support out there for a young entrepreneur or for young entrepreneurs?

Yeah, there is a lot. So you can do accelerators. Also in the UK there is a thing called Enterprise Nation that you can join. They give support in loads of areas for your enterprise. Before launching I did an accelerator that was incubated by Oxford University. So even though I already had a lot of entrepreneurship classes and I was given a lot of tools in Glion, this gave more tools like fundraising, understanding that. Also setting long term goals for your business, surrounding yourself with the right people. So yeah, but I guess as a solo entrepreneur, you also have to be aware that you can’t do everything on your own, and you need to accept that and find the right people to help you and support you.

So angels and mentors are pretty important people to have around basically. Have you managed to find some of those?

Yeah, so I have a circle of mentors with whom I consult regularly, but also from my network. You’d be surprised, actually, like how many people you know or how many people know someone that can help you. So yeah, it’s all about letting your ego go and asking for help. Not hesitating to ask questions, to be proactive. If people don’t want to help you, well, too bad for them.

But you’ve generally found people have come forward when you’ve said, I’ve got a problem here, what can you do?

Exactly, yeah.

That’s great. And I suppose it also underlines the value of networking, the value of – even if it doesn’t appear likely at the time or it’s in a different industry or a different field – that occasionally if you’ve got that network book you can call upon someone that comes out…

Totally, yeah. This is really important. And it’s all about, I mean, a lot of people take networking as a full time job and they’re very successful and it’s amazing. But if you’re not that much of a networker, you know, you can just be genuine. And I think, yeah, it will be appreciated. You don’t have to be a proactive networker from 8am to 8pm every day.

But also talking about that 8am to 8pm – one of the big challenges of entrepreneurship, I know this from speaking to people who’ve built and run businesses, is you’re sort of married to the business and it’s your life. Are you able to maintain what one would think of as a reasonable work life balance doing this?

Yes. And it’s really hard for me, especially, because I am the founder of a wellness brand, so I am supposed to breathe health and wellness, relaxation. And yes, I mean, it’s life. You know, I find myself at times like anyone out there, you want to live the healthiest life possible. We’re now aware of the impact of our mental health, all of that. But there are just days where, well, you just got to wake up early, sleep six hours, work, get it done with. And so it’s not easy finding that balance. Honestly, I don’t have any lessons to give to anyone on this topic.

I mean, I try using my products to self-care regularly; it’s really my time to kind of reset and cocoon and take some time for myself and cut myself off from the world. So I’ve definitely seen an impact in that. But there are some months; for instance, October, November last year, we’ve been so busy with Christmas fairs and trade shows that I barely took a day off in a month and a half, you know? And you just have to work around it, live around it. It’s all about resilience, I think. And prioritizing as well; you know, like knowing when to stop, when to be like okay, this is not a priority, this can wait, myself now is a priority. So yeah I can do what’s important. But it’s not easy.

I can imagine. But let’s flip the coin. We’ve talked about some of the tough moments, and thank you very much for speaking so candidly about that, because I think many other entrepreneurs out there will probably find some resonance in many of the things that you said, in fact. But yeah, let’s flip the coin and take me through what you consider to be some of the high points of this journey so far.

I mean, so much, for instance, already in 2024, we were up more than 80% in terms of gross sales compared to 2023. So yeah. So that’s amazing. We won, as I said like multiple awards. This TV deal is amazing. I’m now going on TV every month or sometimes twice a month. And yeah, the support we get from that is great. We’ve extended our range, so we created some gift sets as well. We’re now developing more skincare products. I’m looking now to grow the team, to have someone to help me on the operations and B2B side, so that I can focus more on the product development, because this takes a lot of time and there are so many details, so much detail that goes into it. And I want to do it well, because once the product is produced, it needs to be well done. So yeah. But these are like the highest are our customer feedbacks, obviously, like hearing them loving the product, how they use it. We see customers that are returning and very loyal to the brand. When we do Black Fridays, we see our customers buying four or five of each product that they love. I have a customer, for instance, every other month she buys six jars of bath salts, four body scrubs. So yeah, seeing, you know, like customers really loving the brand, recognizing that also, there is a value proposition, you know, it comes at the right value, stocking when it’s on sale. So yeah, this has been really amazing.

Repeat business is the ultimate endorsement. Basically.

Yes, totally.

And I suppose as the face of the brand and as the person that I know, because I’ve seen the photographs, who goes out there behind the desk with all the products, I suppose you’re in a relatively fortunate position right now that you get that feedback directly. I imagine, you know, when this becomes a multi-billion dollar business and you’re sitting in a chief executive’s office somewhere, you’ll probably miss that face to face contact with the with the customers, I imagine?

Yeah, totally, and I love that. And I think also that’s really thanks to Glion how I now manage to interact with the customers, with our returning customers, building this relationship. And yeah, it means so much, this human contact. Also for a lot of our customers, you’d be surprised; they can go shopping every day to big department stores, but they feel like they don’t have someone where they can talk through their issues, their skin condition, someone that really listens to them, that is genuine. That is not trying to sell them the most expensive cream or product or treatments, you know. So despite all the importance of the hospitality industry, I think it’s unfortunate that it’s not applied so much in retail, in the retail sector. And you feel that you’re getting in the retail sector. My experience is that I’m getting less and less service as time goes on. While now we have AI, we have you know, we know the impact of customer loyalty, customer happiness. So why don’t you invest in service?

Yeah, sure. And I bet your hospitality training and background does come in quite handy when you’re in those face-to-face customer engagement situations?

Yeah, totally. Like, ensuring customer satisfaction. It’s been so helpful really. And it brought great returns most importantly.

But it’s also, I think, important for people to remember that this is of course a consumer business, a product business, but these products help people. These products make them feel better, improve skin conditions. So there is a proper mission and purpose to this as well as obviously being commercially successful, isn’t there?

Yes, it goes hand in hand. It’s the definition of sustainability, like one cannot go without the other. A lot of people really focus on the ecological – environmental side, sorry – of sustainability. But it’s not only that; sustainability is social, environment and financial. So you need to make sure that these three parts really work hand-in-hand and are healthy to have a viable product, a successful brand and yeah, happy customers.

Indeed. Now we’ve touched on this already, and you’ve mentioned the new product, which we’ll all be looking out for when it comes to fruition. But perhaps looking a little bit further ahead, and to round things up, what’s next? What’s the future looking like for Dead Sea Dream?

So aside from new products, we’re going to continue to expand our presence in-store in the UK. We’re doing another trade show at the beginning of February in Birmingham. It’s called the Spring Fair. It’s actually the biggest retail trade show in the UK, at least. And so that’s going to be really nice, really interesting. We’re going to meet some of our existing clients and also hopefully secure new stockists. So extending the team is something I’m looking at. Also I’m looking for an office space in the Chelsea area… sorry, I’m putting an ad out there!

Well, you might as well take this opportunity!

Yeah, so I’m looking for an office space in the Chelsea, Hammersmith, Kensington area, something that could work, as well, as a small storage space and maybe a packing facility for some of our smaller B2B orders. And I’m also looking for a distributor in the US, if you know anyone, because we feel that we’re focusing on the UK, but the natural growth for us would be to penetrate the American market. They speak the same language in terms of marketing, product labeling, everything. It’s much easier to go that way. And I’m sure they will love the product. So if you know anyone, let me know!

That’s a huge market. That’s not a market you can venture into without some help and support.

Exactly. Yeah. So we would be looking for someone who’s already implemented and would be willing to work with Dead Sea Dream and help us there.

And I guess to a certain extent, continental Europe is covered through your direct sales? But I guess ultimately there’ll be a search for stockists on mainland Europe as well?

Yeah. So we already currently have two stockists actually in Europe; we have one in Italy and one in Switzerland, in Zurich. But yeah, the problem for us with Europe is that at the scale we’re at now, we would need to label our products in different languages. Also Europe, even though there is the European Commission that imposes regulations, countries still have separate regulations. For instance, labeling. France has a recycle label that is different from the European one. So it’s very hard for us, you know, to make sure that’s basically we resonate with each market in terms of marketing communication in all the different languages. In terms of labeling, in terms of regulations. So that’s why we supply D2C on our website in Europe. But in terms of brand implementation and stockists, for us the US would be a much easier move at this time.

Interesting. And for Louise Lisztman, what comes next for you? And obviously you’re still going to be hugely committed to Dead Sea Dream. But are there other areas you might consider flexing your entrepreneurial muscles in?

So I see myself for longer with Dead Sea Dream, that’s for sure. At least for another 8 to 10 years. But maybe once I’m able to grow the team a bit more and have some more ‘me time’ to spend, I would be happy to consider consulting because I love learning about different industries, areas, how it works, and I think I could bring as well some of my experience from working in the hospitality industry and creating my own business from scratch. So yeah, consulting for other businesses or people that want to start their own business is something that is on the back of my mind. But at this moment in time, I have absolutely no time for that.

It is a full time job, as they say.

Being fully transparent, yeah!

And thinking – not necessarily on the consultancy side – but yeah, I would hope that there might be a few young, budding potential entrepreneurs that’ll listen to this conversation. Younger ones especially. So have you got any other words of advice that you might want to give someone that’s just kind of thinking about dipping their toe in the water of business?

Yeah. So my first advice would be to do a lot of research. There is a course at Glion called Academic Research. Make sure you listen to it! So doing a lot of research. Be curious. Don’t be scared to ask questions. Even if they can come across a stupid question – I think there is no stupid question. Also, don’t think you can do everything. Surround yourself with the right people that complement you. That can do what you can’t. What did we say? Do not underestimate your network. You may know someone that knows someone. Don’t be scared to put yourself out there, really.

But I guess the most important quality for an entrepreneur is that you need to be comfortable taking risk and making mistakes and owning up to them. To be able to then fix what you did wrong. Going on the right path and do things differently. So yeah. And also like most important, get your product tested. Get as much feedback from your customers, because ultimately this feedback that you get, you’re going to be able to use it in your marketing message so that you resonate much more with your target market. So yeah, test your product. Get as much feedback.

And as a final question, where can people find Dead Sea Dream online, on socials? And also where can they find Louise Lisztman?

Yes, so you can find Dead Sea Dream at deadseadream.com. We’re also on Instagram and TikTok at deadsea_dream and you can find myself on LinkedIn, Louise Lisztman. I’m quite active. I don’t reply to all the messages all the time, but I try to.

Excellent. Louise Lisztman, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you so much for having me. It was so nice.